Here is the long-awaited third conversation with Imam on the salvation of the Soul, many probably tired of waiting for it, we are sorry, but it turns out that the most important spiritually valuable things meet on the way of their implementation with some obstacles. On the one hand, we are a little used to it and somewhere put up with it, but on the other hand, time slips through fingers like sand and someone invisible urges forward, reminding us of the calendar dates, pointing to the necessity of being in a hurry. And he is probably right, we will try to do it faster...
The first conversation: "Spirituality about which we, for some reason, do not know."
The second conversation: "The doomsday approach. The importance of human unity".
The salvation of the Soul.
Roman: Today I would like finally to talk about the most important thing. In fact, these conversations were once planned only for the sole reason-to pose a question - what is the salvation of the Soul, as well as the importance of this moment and the understanding of how to come to it? In the beginning of the conversation, we can probably ask,” Why does the human live? What is the meaning of human life?” It is, to all appearances, just in the salvation of the Soul, but why do not people consider it today?
Imam: There is such a thing - world outlook, when the information is given to a person, but not in full. Therefore, a person sees the world and realizes himself just in these narrow frames. That is why he does not know how the world really looks like and for which purpose the life is given. Everything starts with the source, since childhood. At first when a person is born, what is he taught?
Roman: How to cling to this world? How to integrate qualitatively into it?
Oleg: How to survive?
Imam: He sees first the example of his parents. First, he (the human-child) feels, and then parents teach him to see and analyze, and start teaching how to survive, how to dominate and so on. They do not teach him straight but he follows their example. When a person is born, he still feels the Spiritual world, from which he came to this material world. This feeling he transfers to the relationship with his mother, and first three years he realizes himself as a single whole with her. And when he is left alone, why do babies cry, behave capriciously?
Oleg: Does not he realize himself as an individual yet?
Imam: He does not realize himself as someone separate; he still has all ties through feelings. If the mother leaves him for some time, he perceives it as a heavy rupture.
Roman: Does it say about the fact that the personality is not developed?
Imam: Yes it does. The personality is still underdeveloped as well as the consciousness. After all, what is the consciousness? It is a set of patterns, programs and information.
Oleg: It is important moment; does he realize himself as a single whole with his mother?
Imam: It is one organism, their relationship is on the level of feelings, and they have a direct contact through the Soul. Therefore, properly speaking, it is needed that mother would be always with the child, and would not give him to nannies from birth, but did it herself. I am sorry, but for that, she should have the information herself and know how to do it. To love this child at least. He is not a toy in her hands, and she gives birth to him not in order to manifest her imperious ambitions and manipulate. The child should be born, but not appear by chance. First comes from the word Ra-wait - wait for the light, wait for the soul, and the second meaning is clear.
Maxim: It turns out that when a child is born, he does not have knowledge. Is it right?
Imam: Of course, he is like a blank sheet. The matter is that he still has this feeling of common- he still remembers God. That feeling which he cannot express as he does not have an idiolect, he does not speak at all, but he does have that feeling of common.
Roman: They say that children are closer to God.
Imam: That is right.
Maxim: Why do not they go away "there"?
Imam: They do not have experience. In order to unite with God, a personal decision is needed, a choice, but the Personality is not developed yet, he or she does not realize his or her right to choose. First, the Personality has to gain the experience of spiritual relations, and this is, in one's turn, the relations with the Creator. This experience should be conscious. Not from the word "consciousness", but really the choice that is made by the Personality. And this experience is really needed, then the fusion of the Soul with the Personality occurs and prepared Spiritual Personality takes a step into the Spiritual world.
Maxim: Nevertheless, for what is the human born and for what does he live?
Imam: Let us start with the fact that a person needs knowledge about his nature, about the world, where he is.
Maxim: Has he to cognize the world in which he is at first?
Imam: Yes, he has.
Roman: Has he to cognize oneself then?
Imam: He should cognize himself as a part of another world. Here the question is that...the human should cognize not only the material world. He cognizes the Material world by consciousness, by mind, but the Spiritual world he can perceive only through feelings. For this, he should have knowledge.
Roman: Just to clarify, this is not the emotions but the deepest feelings.
Imam: Yes, these are the deepest feelings of love, joy, gratitude, happiness...
Oleg: Let us consider the issue of the spiritual development from childhood in stages. Here the human is born...
Imam: By and large, the human, no matter small or big, remains a child.
Imam: Always. Do you know what the problem of modern society is? The personality always remains a child; he or she does not develop. The human only pretends that he is an adult. In fact, the toys are the same, just more expensive, and games become cruel. Just analyze, look at an ordinary average person.
Oleg: Yes, the cars become bigger; sandboxes are wider.
Imam: Yes, and it starts already - this is my piece, this is my business, this is my piece of the city...
Roman: The tanks are real...
Oleg: They gave birth to children and these are games too.
Imam: That is what we are talking about. The Personality of a child develops to a certain point and then stops his or her development. She or he has a limit. The problem is in this - if the human does not start to develop his Personality himself and make personal choice, then further, he starts looking for the meaning of life. But the society offers its conceptions, patterns, stereotypes,-that a human should amass material goods, have an account in the bank, a car, a country house and a full set of accessories...And undeveloped personality who does not have the deep knowledge, accepts it as a must, gives it the power of his or her attention.
Sergey: Is the purpose to provide oneself in order to survive?
Imam: In fact, what is the priority of the Animal nature or consciousness? To dominate. Let us take the simplest. What is it based on? On the instinct of survival. The one, who dominates in the Animal world, survives. In any pack, alpha male is most able to survive at the expense of repression of others. In the material world, among people is the same situation, in principle, but here only a little bit more interesting: either someone physically represses or he is cunning, deceives, but it is practically the same thing - he strives for domination in different ways. Everything is based on the instinct of survival, the one who is able to control the surroundings and the people around - the dominant, who considers himself in safety.
Sergey: And why do you use the word "consider"?
Imam: Because it is not so. What kind of safety can be there? Eventually, the body will die in any case. And it does not matter how you safeguard it or as who guards it, there is no sense in it at all. And what kind of life it is if you constantly experience fear and pressure of rivals? What is happening in youth companies? Someone becomes adult, someone ages (body ages), and the young grow up on the heels, and strive for the same. It is so everywhere.
But let us get back to the world outlook. When a person has a full knowledge how the world is organized, by whom, then he feels differently. Even science has already arrived at a conclusion that surrounding us world could not appear itself. Everything works so efficiently, harmoniously. Let us consider, for example, celestial mechanics. Everything is done so that the planets do not collide with each other. Consider from the macrocosm to the microcosm. The same structures, the crystal lattice. How it could be connected in this way? One of the biologists once said an interesting thing: the big bang theory of the origin of the universe, which we exaggerate in principle, is comparable to the fact that encyclopedia appeared due to the explosion at the printing house. The letters flew away, flew together - and so the dictionary is ready.
Roman: Really, how was it all built in such precise rows?
Imam: The world could not appear off the cuff. There is some force; we do understand that after all it is the Creator, the Lord, who created this world. But the knowledge of "How?" is not accessible to us for one simple reason, our consciousness does not contain so much information as mortal cannot perceive eternal life. There are different ways to cognize God, including scientific one. Yes, it is not perfect yet, but it is also a way.
Roman: Does it mean that it is possible to find out about God by means of science, through consciousness?
Imam: Yes, as a matter of fact, if people take science seriously and honestly. Scientists get to the root of the matter and arrive at a conclusion that God created this world.
Roman: For example, Vladimir Antonov, was a scientist during many years, and came to understanding that the world has a single Creator...
Imam: Many scientists were believers, - Bekhterev, Pavlov and others. Now mathematics prove the existence of the Creator, physicists have already come to this, biologists, especially those who study the human brain and all its manifestations, cannot explain its multiple functions. They cannot understand why so many opportunities and abilities, which a person does not use, are laid in him.
Sergey: Is nothing said about it anywhere?
Imam: Yes, nothing is said as it is not profitable. For example, look how interesting are the programs with the participation of N.P.Behterevoy or T.V.Chernigovskoy. Many scientists who are seriously engaged in science. Almost all surgeons are believers, because face with such moments, which simply do not fit into any frames of their knowledge...
Maxim: We cannot say that there is no such information. After all, all true scientists present it.
Imam: Official science repudiates this information, as it is a part of the system, but true scientists talk a lot about it. Everyone knows that the one, who possesses the information, possesses the world. Why is it so? If they present all the information as it is, then people will become free, as they do not need guides, telling them how to live. The human himself will understand what to do; he will have the meaning in life and a straight road without labyrinths.
Imam: Well, from where everything appeared - to the Spiritual world.
Roman: Here let us talk about this in more detail! Does a person have a Soul, in general?
Imam: There are no people without a Soul at all; otherwise, it is not a human. If we reveal the concept itself, the concept “human”, then what is it? There are people and men. Why are there several names? The human, if you consider his visible component, is the body, almost biochemical laboratory, capable of creating everything - any chemical element.
Roman: Unfortunately, the majority of people identify themselves with the chemical plant...
Imam: Again, the lack of information, it is first. Secondly, the body is made very interesting. It produces not only the necessary substances to support life, but also the internal opiates. Various chemical compounds that give pleasure to the body. These substances are produced when a person is in different emotional states. These are euphoria, fear, anger, and others. The emotional addiction appears. And often people cling to it and become the hostages of the body. There are a lot of diseases, or at least similar to them - coffee lovers, music lovers and others. Mania - is an overmastering bent. This is a hook to corporeal, to something, that gives pleasure. But all this is a dependence on external sources. Dependence on the emotions - is internal dependence, on the consciousness. The body is coarse material component of the human being and consciousness is the subtle material component (invisible to the human eye). It is proved already that the consciousness is a complex field structure.
Roman: Unfortunately, the human identifies himself with the consciousness as well.
Imam: Yes, but the matter is that he still does not see it yet, he believes that it is a forming component of the physical body, the activity of the brain. Scientists have already proven that it is not so. The brain is only a receiving and transmitting system, but not the consciousness. That is, the processes proceeding in the brain completely do not correlate with the processes occurring in the consciousness. Why? There was an interesting information. They carried out a series of experiments, and obtained just a shocking result. It seems to me that Tatyana Chernigovskaya told about this. During the experiment on the human, a computer brain scan is being taken. The human is asked to think about some action and he immediately swung into it. In this case, a person should stir a finger of his hand. It took 300 milliseconds before he did it, before he even thought about it. That is, first, there was a signal and then the person has a thought to do. And only then the action follows.
Roman: What does it talk about?
Imam: It told about the fact that person does not possess his body; he does not have his will. Who does think in him? The human does not have time to realize that thought and that action which he takes. But he is already doing it.
Roman: Does it turn out, that he conducts will?
Imam: It turns out so. That is, the work of brain itself is being studied very carefully now. And the consciousness is studied as well.
Roman: Yeah, as far as I remember, in 1973 Benjamin Libet conducted the first experiments in this field, if you are interested. Yes, the topic is well known.
Maxim: Does it turn out, we emphasize, that it is a serious mistake to associate yourself with the body and the consciousness?
Imam: Yes. Here is still an issue that the consciousness is a field structure. It is also an information component of the human. But, as a matter of fact, it is of more subtle matter than the physical body. But the driving force of all this mechanism is the Soul. The Soul of the human enters the body at the 8th day. This is recorded by many as a sharp increase in the child's body weight from 20 to 50 grams; it is exactly at the 8th day child's look became softly radiant and intelligent.
Roman: But people associate the Soul with completely different. This conversation is for a wide range of readers, so I will periodically add my comments. Somehow, Slavonic person associate the Soul with the virtue of character or the internal psychic world. It either grieves cries or bleeds. But I heard that in Western culture it is not acceptable to talk about it at all. Why did this situation arise?
Imam: That is simple. Science Psychology in its name has two words "psyche" and "logos”. These are Greek words, they mean "psyche" -soul, "logos", "logia" - science. This is science about the Soul. Initially, the spiritual component was studied, but with the loss of knowledge and substitution of concepts, in present society it is already science of the activity of the human consciousness.
Roman: Is everything about it, about the "System"?
Imam: Of course! If a person knows that he has a Soul and there is the possibility of further evolutionary development as an eternal, spiritual being then he will have a goal in life. And it is not just a goal, but a necessity of personal transformation. Hence appears the understanding of life value, rather than just filling the stomach, wallet and procreation. His evolution is going further than at the physical level, and the person starts to think about it, to ask awkward questions.
Roman: And think where to go?
Imam: Perfectly true. And if he starts to ask the question then he starts to develop. But it is impossible at all to rule an intelligent human.
Roman: How to explain to a person what the Soul is in words of one syllable? And can it be explained?
Imam: That is just it. It is impossible to explain. You can only feel it. The Soul does not belong to the physical body, to the consciousness, to the physical world in general as such. A person can feel it, and he does in some moments of life. But he fails to realize what it is. Where do the deepest feelings arise? The feeling of deep peace, love, happiness, which are not bound up with anything material, neither with events or people, nor with material objects, but it just is. This particular moment of burst of the deepest feelings that a person can feel, is exactly the Soul manifestation. We can only feel it! Neither see no detect by any instruments, but only through personal understanding, through personal feelings.
Roman: Well, is it possible then to give people guidance in what part of the body the Soul is?
Imam: If we talk about the body, then it is in the vicinity of the chest or the solar plexus. But it does not mean that there is some point. It is rather non-material, energy realm - closer to this understanding. It is not matter but antimatter, if we can put it so.
Roman: And if to the point, in more detail, then what is the Soul?
Imam: In order to talk about what the Soul is, you have to understand what God is, because the Soul is His particle in every human.
Maxim: If it is not in the material world, then where is it?
Imam: Again, we will revert to the human structure. We started to talk about the physical body, about the consciousness. But by and large there is such a concept as human energy structure. The physical body plays in it a very small role, only as one of the protective shells of the Soul. The body in this structure takes up approximately 5%. Now physicists try to isolate antimatter. But what will happen if you combine matter and antimatter? According to physics, annihilation occurs. In order for non-material object to be in the material world, it must be protected. And first of all, the material world should be protected. And we say that the Soul is one of the components of the world of the Creator, the spiritual world. According to various beliefs, different information and it is also mentioned in the Quran, that if the Creator shows his true face just for a moment, then mountain will be wiped out from the face of the earth.
Roman: As it is sung in the song, the Soul has a power of the atomic bomb, has not it?
Imam: The human has enormous energy. If the energy of only one person releases somehow, the Himalayas will turn into a desert of fine sand. So huge is the power, the energy that is in one human being.
Roman: And the Soul is the source of this power, is not it? It is not Qi, not other energies, is not it?
Imam: That what you are talking about is the energies of this world, material. The issue here is that the Soul as anti-matter is protected by various energy shells, including the physical body of the human. In order to make it possible for a human to cognize this world, the certain protective structure is constructed around the Soul (research articles), where the body, its mind and the consciousness are the tools of cognition. In ancient times, there was such a notion that around a human there are four Aspects (research articles). Various nations of the world call and determine them in different ways.
Roman: Yes, judging by the artifacts, the ancients had really vast knowledge...
Imam: Yes. Whereas among the Slavs, it was more associated with the elements, with different states of nature: winter, spring, and summer, autumn. As well as with the cardinal points. In different times the information about this was given in different ways. And the nations had different associations, terminology. To those nations who lived in the forests, the knowledge was conveyed through images, which were close to them, to those who lived in the steppe - through other ones. And so on. That is, the transfer of knowledge was through the transfer of images and associations. What was more acceptable for a person to understand, that was used to convey the knowledge. In those times to denote the sides of the structure, the words "spirits", "aspects”, “totem animals" and so on were used. The Aspects are energy and information fields in the invisible human structure that possess the capabilities to study, save, hand over and analyze the information and many others. They are quite rational and are a single whole with the human in this structure. The structure itself has a shape of a truncated pyramid. Between the truncated pyramid and the top there is a layer- this is a field of consciousness.
Roman: About it, we will talk in more detail separately.
Imam: But in the top of the pyramid, there is a Personality. It is a spiritual component, who every person perceives himself to be during lifetime. The Personality has such an interesting aspect. It analyzes, draws conclusions and accumulates personal baggage of sensory and emotional experience. Only the Personality has a choice.
Sergey: But you have said that the Soul is a part of God. Are God and the Spiritual world the same?
Imam: Yes. God is everywhere, in everything, and the material world is constructed on this basis. This world is like a frozen information wave. That is why we start seeing it. Well, let us take water; it has several states. There is steam, is it right? If steam is condensed, then water appears, visible, denser. If water is frozen, the solid object appears. So if we associate it roughly, then there is the will of the Creator, an urge, one his tiny thought: The light will be! And the Light has appeared. The earth will be and there is the earth. That is due to his little desire this world has appeared. This is exactly that huge potential which thickening and freezing, forms our visible world.
Roman: That is, based on the previous issue, can we say that every human has a God particle?
Roman: With this enormous potential?
Imam: Yes. Every material object first of all consists of cells, atoms, particles, and at long last, what is said by scientists and ancient knowledge, matter consists of information. And if we look further, the information consists of the Creator energy, which is enclosed within the "mirrors". Conventionally, they are called Septons. Combining, these particles form Septon fields. These fields can be ever more condensed forming matter. Or remain as Septon fields - not manifested. But it is all the same matter, although invisible.
Roman: Let us talk about what the salvation of the Soul is. We have just found out that the human has a particle of God. The human is a Personality that ideally should control the physical body and the consciousness, is it so? The main component of the person, which can make a choice, is the Personality. So, what the Personality has to do in order to become spiritually free? Here is the second question. Everyone has heard such concepts as enlightenment, exit into paradise, Nirvana, and so on. Is it the same?
Imam: Yes. In various religions, the ideas how a person can take a step in his evolutionary development, were given in different ways. It is that you told about - enlightenment, merging with the Absolute or the rich of Nirvana whatever you like. Including Sufi practices, where there was also a notion of spiritual transformation. We had to understand how to do it. A high value here is placed on cognition.
Roman: Is the true meaning of human life in this?
Imam: The true meaning of life is to evolve.
Roman: Is enlightenment just a stage?
Imam: This is exactly an evolutionary stage for a human to move up from his animal, corporeal state to already more developed, the spiritual state. And the difference is huge. Spirit, a spiritual being does not need such material shell as the body with its everlasting desires and the necessity to serve it. And the body itself takes a lot of attention, it is far from perfect, is not free in its development. The body can only exist in the environment in which we are here on Earth. And the Spirit is free to be in any world, in any environment. It does not need to be fed, be given to drink, be dressed.
Roman: What is the salvation of the Soul? People, who are on church service, also assert, "We save the Soul," and mean by it something of their own.
Imam: You have noticed it right, many people of different faiths, religions, came there for particular reason. There are plenty of those who are looking for the Truth. They feel that somewhere there the information is, the knowledge is.
Roman: Something bigger...
Imam: Something bigger than is told on sermon. That is why people go further to look for. Where to go? Where such a person should go to find the knowledge? He feels that it exists, that there is the knowledge about the Soul and the Spiritual world. But where to get it?
Roman: Is there concrete knowledge about the Soul salvation among religious teachings?
Imam: If you dig deeper, of course, there is...
Roman: Do you mean heartfelt prayer?
Imam: Yes. It is good all the same that in the Orthodox it is still told about the Soul. We have reached a point where, as it was mentioned at the beginning of our conversation, in Western civilization it is not even acceptable to talk about it. But if you consider the ancient sources of the same religions then everything is there. There was knowledge about the Soul, its reincarnations, and about the silver thread, that connects the Personality with the Soul. This knowledge is simply so changed, altered and buried under the weight of time, in understandings of various "personalities" from the religion...
Roman: Do we return to the fact that it was done with some specific purpose?
Imam: Yes, as always - if a person does not understand something he either conceals the knowledge for which he has no answer, or destroys it. Or he alters it with the specific purpose- to gain the power over another person. People were always interested in their spiritual life. Some of them go to the spiritual institutions in order to get information, to get knowledge, while others are looking for teachers, various gurus.
Roman: But they get rites, dogmas and "shamanic dances," as Igor Mikhailovich called it in the programs.
Imam: Yes, that what remained from knowledge and that Knowledge, which was turned into religion, could give a little to a human. Knowledge was always given in a simple and understandable way in order to make it possible for every personality to develop spiritually by applying it in practice.
Maxim: Did we have those who had to save and hand it over?
Imam: Yes, we had. In pre-Christian times, those were the Magi. In the East, those were mainly Sufis, in Islam - the dervishes, in Buddhism - the Brahmins, those who were obliged to save and hand over the pure knowledge. And almost all religious currents and all nations had custodians of knowledge. But with the development of civilization and material understanding of the world and the consumer attitude towards life, this knowledge was lost. Somewhere it was hidden, but was already forgotten where. Someone started to use the knowledge to achieve personal mercantile purposes, power purposes and such like. Therefore, knowledge as such about the Soul, the Spiritual world, the Path of own Spiritual development - they were just lost. Although from time to time in different nations, in different civilizations, especially at the dawn of civilization, this knowledge from time to time was renewed.
Maxim: We talk about some institutions or institutes, such moment is not fully clear: we do pass on family traditions, when in the family, as we said at the beginning of our conversation, the mother, having knowledge, three years passed it on to her child. And if from generation to generation the mother passes on the knowledge to children, we do not take into account the institutes, the Church or the Magi, who could on their own consideration intentionally hide this knowledge for the usurpation of power, then why did a transfer of this knowledge cease in families?
Imam: For the same reason. Somewhere was a misunderstanding, in some period of time, something happened in civilization, may be wars, cataclysms, shocks ... Custodians, who had the knowledge really could die or there was no one whom to pass it on. How many epidemics were all over the Earth: plague, cholera, entire continents became desolate. Somewhere the transfer of knowledge to next generations was broken off. But this does not mean that it was lost at all. After all, the knowledge is renewed periodically, people gain it.
Roman: Is it like in this case, with us?
Imam: Yes. In this case, we live in the time of Crossroads. Knowledge has been renewed, already in this form, adapted for our conditions. And it is supported by scientific research, and that is a big advantage. If we consider the times which were a little bit earlier - people followed mainly the faith. It was based on practical experience.
Roman: By intuition, instinctively? And this most probably was much more complicated.
Imam: But at the same time, a great faith and aspiration gave the results.
Roman: Did they know where to strive? Did they feel?
Imam: Yes, of course. They were guided by feelings.
Sergey: You said earlier that it is impossible to explain to a person what the Soul is. He can only feel it. Or by using some associative examples, right?
Imam: Definitely. It is not possible otherwise.
Sergey: And how to make a person at least be interested in that topic, in order he would try, lightly touch? But it is interesting.
Roman: Enter the metro in the morning and try to offer passengers to save own Soul. How will they look at you?
Sergey: I am talking exactly about it. How to make it interesting for a person? It is impossible. Is there some effective approach?
Imam: The most simple: a human always knows what life is and what death is. At least he has some understanding. Look how interesting it is - a person is involved with everything he likes, he believes that life - is a constant bustle, movement and the consciousness perceives itself alive only when moving. But the real life - Well, it never disappears anywhere. The true life is stable. After all, what is happening in nature? Life exists always; it only changes its form. But it is. And body mortality, mortality of everything material always take place, and people start feeling it, the more so since time is speeding up. Therefore, there comes such a moment of fear- what will happen.
Roman: Is it possible to interest through fear?
Imam: Well, fear is not the way. Here the research interest is important. It is a return to childhood!
Roman: Is it the internal human aspiration?
Imam: It is written in the Bible that when Jesus told his disciples: "Be like children." And how does a child cognize the world? He is interested in everything! He even does not care where he hit, it is important for him to achieve the target, which he sees in front of him. It is the desire of cognition. It is the constant research interest. To probe, to touch, the process itself is important for him.
Roman: And may it be that for adult it is a return to happiness, to peace after a fuss?
Imam: Absolutely right. But if you just come to a person and say, “Start investigating yourself", or tell him in addition about the spiritual, then he gives it a hostile reception. So his consciousness works. The consciousness in the human is fighting for the power of attention. That is, there is an opposition between the material nature and the spiritual nature at the field of the human mind. To what you pay attention that develops. As soon as a person starts talking about the spiritual, people who are more interested in the material are outraged.
Maxim: They write you in the sectarians, pin a label on you in order not to investigate further. It is easier to remain in the illusion of consciousness than to understand what is really happening.
Imam: That is it. But here is another question. How does the one, who already knows, live? Is he an example for others? Very often, it is so that a happy human goes, he is satisfied, because he lives so. He has such lifestyle- to be happy.
Roman: He is really happy...
Imam: Do you remember, in one of the parables, when disciples of Zen Master asked him, "Why are you always so happy, always cheerful, smiling, we have never seen you sad?" And he answers: "I always follow the example of my teacher. He in exactly the same way always woke up and asked himself what kind of person he should be today- sad or cheerful? And it turns out so that I always choose to be cheerful. I choose to enjoy life, to be happy. Although happiness, as practice shows, is not a material category. It is an internal component. A human can be happy, being somewhere on a desert island. He can be happy everywhere, regardless of what is put on him or what he has.
Roman: It is a skill, however.
Sergey: Can we say that here a very clever substitution of this world is hidden? The human was created to be happy, but the real happiness is in cognition of God's world, cognition of oneself and of the Soul, and in the fusion with the Soul, is it right? But the person, who is not aware of it, is mistakenly looking for happiness in matter.
Imam: Of course, this is a substitution. A person can be really happy only when he does not care about the body, does not think about the fact that he is mortal. And he only cares how to reach the new evolutionary level, how to stop being a temporary and finite. Can there be any happiness if you know that you will die tomorrow? After all, human is mortal, and yet, as Woland said, human is suddenly mortal. Whatever he gains - in case of accident or catastrophe - and it is all gone! Everything is over, what kind of happiness can be from this? The human accumulates some wealth, values them, but he understands that he does not have time to use them. So the happiness comes only when the person starts feeling. He starts feeling happiness, Love, Eternity. After all, he starts to be in contact with the Creator. He does it through the Soul, of course. It does not happen otherwise.
Roman: And again, I am like a parrot, what is the salvation of the Soul?
Imam: That what is meant by the salvation of the soul is rather a disadvantage of our conceptual apparatus. When we talk about the salvation of the soul, then first we mean the salvation not only the soul, but also Personality.
Roman: In fact, does it turn out to be the salvation not the Soul, but the Personality?
Imam: Yes, the Soul is immortal.
Roman: It came and it left, it does not owe anyone anything, as it was said in the program. After all, it is a particle of God.
Imam: Yes, the Soul is immortal. But the Personality either pays attention to matter and becomes a material component or pays attention to the spiritual and fully becomes the Spirit. It evolves cardinally.
Roman: In other words, something, what is called in religion the salvation of the soul, takes place, but in fact, it is the salvation of the Personality, through its fusion with the Soul, is it right?
Imam: Yes. It is a process, a fusion of the Personality with the Soul. But then again, it is said in the programs and example is very significant, I mean the fusion of spermatozoon with ovule. Until that happens, we cannot talk about any living being.
Roman: Is it the meaning of human life?
Imam: Yes, evolution. The meaning of the whole existence is the evolution. We will take associative example, as science tells us, the evolution has stemmed from an elementary organism, and to such a big and complex as a human being. And if you take deeper, then the next step is the evolution of the human to the spiritual. It is the evolution to the spiritual world. Those are not fairy tales, and not some myths and ideas; the meaning of human life is to move further along the path of evolution. It is fusion with the Creator and the infinite cognition having already freed from the attachment to the material world. Now science is going forward, and there is already evidence that there are other planets and most probably there are other civilizations there.
Sergey: Churchmen say, "Pray for the salvation of your soul," For what reason, whom to save?
Imam: The lack of information. Although when a person is praying, he does enter the prayerful state. His Personality and that power of attention are directed precisely on the spiritual work. Spiritual work, which is prayer, meditation, spiritual practice, in different systems of spiritual search, is performed in different ways. In different religions, different religious systems no matter how you call it, but it is an altered state of consciousness. The attention of the personality is directed to the spiritual component of the human. The person experiences deep feelings of peace, love, gratitude, inner freedom, a feeling of contact with the Creator. This is called gaining the grace, the acquisition of the Holy Spirit, and so on.
Roman: Is attention directed to the Soul?
Imam: Yes, it is a particle of God above all. You see, feelings arise when a person does not think about matter. A dialogue with the Creator appears, and He speaks the language of feelings. At that moment a person does not think about the patties.
Sergey: Why, sometimes he thinks when praying.
Imam: It depends on the depth of the spiritual or prayer practice. Even though a prayer is a bit different way, through the word, but when a person enters the prayer practice, he enters a state of spirituality. As they say in Christianity, a state of the Creator approaching and act of receiving the Good appears. The Good is just that wonderful feeling that is experienced by the praying from the contact with the Creator. There is a huge state of Love, happiness, harmony, when a person is in deep immersion into prayer. And the more often he performs such spiritual feats, the more he begins to cognize himself as a spiritual being. This also can be done in other ways. There are Sufis, whirling dervishes, they do practices in dynamics, in motion, but there is an altered state of consciousness. In the East, it is more a spiritual practice, when attention immediately goes to the perception through feelings.
Sergey: And for us is it a prayer?
Imam: Yes, different ways to achieve the same. Only a prayer is a longer way.
Roman: And what is the hidden mechanism? Here is the Personality and here is the Soul. What is the driving force that can fuse them together? By what?
Imam: By the power of attention, the love to God.
Roman: Only the power of attention, is that all? The first Commandment says that you need to love God...
Imam: Then by what? The personality is the one who appeals, after all the attention is the appeal to God. Nurturing of love is the opening of the gates, the acquisition of the Holy Spirit, the accumulation of the divine power of creation. That is why there was the worship of the Virgin Mary, and in pre-Christian times in the territory of the Slavs there was the worship of woman-mother. Archaeologists unearth heathen temples, where the main figure is female. Various nations worshiped the Female principle in different epochs. There was the knowledge of human transformation through the accumulation of the divine creative power. This is the accumulation of experience of contact with the Spiritual world. The more often a person does it, the more he gains the experience of the spiritual victories.
Roman: Does he appeal to the Soul more often?
Imam: Yes, he starts to live by feelings.
Roman: And what happens in this case?
Imam: And happens the following- he begins to open up. And this channel from the soul, from the Creator, becomes bigger, wider. He gets more power of the Creator, the creative power, the power of attention, the power of creation. Previously, it was called the power of Allat.
Roman: The power of Allat? And what it is, if to use simple language. Is it Love? Is it Goodness?
Imam: We can perceive it as love, peace, infinite happiness, blissful state.
Sergey: But it is not euphoria, is it?
Imam: No, it is not euphoria. Euphoria is an emotion. And emotions are short-lived and are distortion of feelings through the consciousness.
Sergey: Many people mean by concept of happiness strong emotions.
Imam: Let us consider the difference between feelings and emotions. When attention is constantly paid to the spiritual side, inside oneself, to the soul, many people told about this, just consider the “Poem of the Sufi Way” by Ibn al-Farid. There he describes very clearly the process of spiritual transformation. Indeed, it is an internal quality, an internal component. And when a person is constantly in such a spiritual feat, he begins to live by feelings, he becomes quiet, he learns to observe the spiritual life.
Roman: Is this channel strengthened?
Imam: Yes, a person gradually realizes and starts to separate the material world and the spiritual one. And begins to understand the illusory nature of the material world and the reality of the spiritual world. And which one of them is initial. Who creates? By and large, the material world appears from the spiritual one, because the basis of everything is the Creator. And when a person constantly lives by these feelings, lives by this attention to God then he starts to understand that he can freely and naturally take this step. The next evolutionary round. Further, the cognition never stops.
Roman: The step is a fusion of the Personality with the Soul, is not it?
Imam: That is right.
Roman: But the human does it by his own choice, does not he?
Roman: Is it enough just to say, "I choose"? Alternatively, is it the result of some process, of inner work? As I understand it, here an accumulation of Allat plays an important role, does not it?
Imam: There are several paths. The path of faith, when a human said firmly to himself, "Yes", and made the last, final choice. He does not need proof. He cut off the past. It is like to give up smoking; he threw and never in his life took a cigarette in his mouth. That is his choice. An internal quality. Here is the same. Everything is fractal in the world. Absolute faith that leads a person directly to the fusion. But then again, there should be the knowledge that there is the Personality, there is the Soul, there is a silver thread that connects them, or associatively, a navigator, showing where to move.
Roman: But in the majority, is it like acquiring a particular skill?
Imam: Yes, because that faith as such should contain the knowledge. And process of cognition can be quite long. Everything depends on the person who decided for himself to follow the spiritual path.
Roman: To God, in other words.
Imam: Yes, and there is no other path. The path to God.
Roman: Well, thanks to the book "AllatRa" we do already know that there is still a path to subpersonality, and the vast majority of people choose exactly it.
Imam: This is material.
Maxim: Could you tell us, why for someone it is enough just to take a step, while for other to spend half of the life?
Imam: Everything depends on the human choice. How seriously he treats this action. If a person decided, he understood and felt, and then it is enough for him to take a step, resolutely. As it was said in the program: "Stood up and went." However, someone needs first to convince his consciousness that everything which it perceives is not real. But it is a long way to go.
Roman: With the help of science, for example, quantum physics, is it already proved that what surrounds us is an illusion?
Imam: How can be real something that is temporary and can disappear?
Maxim: We told about the accumulation of Allat...
Imam: Let us take an associative example. Grain must receive nutrients and water in order to germinate. It swells, and then comes an energy push, when the seed bursts and the shoot appears. Then he begins to shoot through the thick layer of earth, comes to the surface and starts getting already all the nutrients that are needed and the sunlight. From a small seed grows a huge tree, because all the information about this tree was laid in it, about every leaf, which can grow on this tree in ideal conditions. You can pour a grain out drop by drop. The grain will take these droplets when a person is in deepest feelings ... but he can also experience different state. Will he get it or will this drop dry earlier?
We gain experience, gain arguments for the last choice. We convince our consciousness that it is necessary. We start to gain the experience of being in the spiritual practice, in contact with the Creator, in order to start living by it then. It becomes natural. We do not think how we breathe, do we. We understand that the breathing is the natural life basis. Therefore, a person entering a spiritual practice, taking it seriously, starts to live by feelings appearing in a different state of consciousness.
Roman: By deepest feelings, I am clarifying, just in case; it is not an ordinary love, there, to cigarettes, to the hills, to the sausages, to the country...?
Imam: The deepest feelings generally are not attached to material object. It is absolute love, perfect one.
Maxim: It turns out so that first, a theory comes- knowledge and after it, a person can make a choice, is it so?
Imam: We said at the beginning of our conversation that he comes as a clean sheet. He should first understand where to move, realize, get a certain set of knowledge, and switch on the Navigator.
Roman: Do you mean knowledge, choice, and attention?
Roman: He has received the knowledge, has made a choice, has directed his attention - those are three components of enlightenment, can we put it so?
Imam: Everywhere, generally speaking, as they say, there are four pillars, four bases - whatever you like, in which the fifth one manifests. First, world outlook. That understanding of where we are, who we are in essence. Then goes the analysis of the system, how this world is organized, how a person interacts with it?
Imam: Yes. It is like a baby wandering around the house, who finally understands that there is a vast world outside this house. He finds the door, he has more power already - he went out and saw a boundless world with the stars and everything else. The same situation is with the human.
Roman: Is it the salvation of the Soul?
Imam: This is the salvation of the Personality - and the Soul becomes a part of the Spiritual world already deliberately, I mean a new spiritual being appears, with its own characteristics and personal qualities.
Roman: Does the Soul have personal qualities?
Imam: Yes, a Personality becomes a consciousness of the future spiritual being. It gains life experience. By joining with the Soul it turns out that, the Soul realizes this potential, which it has as a spiritual being.
Sergey: Does the individuality remain?
Imam: The individuality remains due to the Personality.
Maxim: We started to talk a little bit about the fact that a human should study four points: a worldview, a system....
Imam: Third, is unity. It is the understanding that God is one in the set. When a person begins to understand it, all the differences disappear. He understands that in every person there is a particle of God.
Roman: In other words, the whole this world is God, is not it?
Imam: Yes. Only the consciousness separates. And the fourth component is perception through feelings. That, when a person starts to communicate with the Spiritual world and becomes a part of the Spiritual world.
Roman: How to acquire it?
Imam: Through the spiritual practices that are the tools for understanding. And when we constantly use these tools, we find in ourselves this perception through feelings every single moment of our life. Here comes the understanding that this world is like a school. It is necessary here to acquire knowledge and go beyond it, to evolve further in the spiritual, applying spiritual practices. The most ancient spiritual practice, if you take the East, is the "Lotus Flower". This is the main spiritual practice that one cannot master even for a lifetime- it is so deep. In Christianity, it is Jesus or heartfelt prayer. If you take the Sufis, they also have their practices, which lead to this spiritual transformation. And so on. They are called differently in many systems, but their essence is the same: it is the perception of the world through feelings, which leads to the fusion of the Personality with the Soul and the exit of a new spiritual being into the spiritual world.
Sergey: You told that the consciousness separates. Accordingly, the third pillar is unity. Does that mean that the person is initially united with everything, and only the consciousness separates? What exactly separates? Are these ego, appraisals, comparisons, and judgments, something else that the person should get rid of in order to feel the unity?
Imam: The basis of everything that separates is always the pride and vanity, on what the consciousness plays. This is the root of all human ills.
Roman: From which a huge tree grows, does not it?
Imam: That is right, it branches out into all sorts of things: fear, patterns of perception and the fear of evaluation by other people.
Sergey: Having got rid of the vanity, pride and ego, a human becomes a single whole and starts living by God, does not he?
Imam: Yes. As, there is nothing more that separates him.
Sergey: He is with God, and in God, is not he?
Roman: Well, let us consider the examples, here is an ordinary person has received the information that his true goal is to save the Personality through its fusion with the Soul. He has already tried in the material world blisses and foolish things, clearly having realized that - everything is - rubbish, swamp and decay. Which first steps should he take? Well, nevertheless, if we explain it in simple words, ... then it is paying attention inward, looking for deepest feeling, is it?
Imam: In fact, everything starts with it. To what does everyone come, who starts to study the spiritual? He experiences some inner need, some impulse. This is something so subtle that a person wants to cognize, but it is inside, deep inside. Whereas he cannot understand in full what is going on. Then he starts to look for the information.
Roman: Can we call it the search for happiness, peace, and feeling of home?
Imam: It is an internal impulse, similar to... a child seeking a parent. It has an internal movement to something beautiful, to something that does not exist in this world. The more so when the person lived a little, tried in his life one thing, second one, third one- and he cannot find that state of unity, the state of happiness, hidden deep inside.
Roman: He cannot find the true freedom in the external, can he?
Imam: That is it! He understands that his real freedom is inside. Even when his physical body is in some unfavorable external conditions, switching to the inner state, he realizes that, inside, he is free.
Maxim: The Call of freedom - does not it come from the Soul?
Imam: Yes, it does. The more so, when he begins to pay attention to the Source, then the aspiration of the Soul to go home, to the spiritual world, manifests. And this is one more step, it is the call of the Soul to the Personality in order the Personality, having realized this freedom would make its final choice where to move.
Roman: But let us nevertheless go deep into the essence and get back a bit, at the first stage the attention is important, is it?
Imam: Yes, the attention and the love to God, as a parent.
Roman: And the attention does not wander outside, but it is consciously directed inwards, is it?
Imam: In some moments of life, a person can spontaneously feel some inner surge.
Roman: Does he feel it unexpectedly, regardless of the circumstances?
Imam: Yes, a desire appears to pay attention inward, that is, to the internal qualities. This energy surge - in science it is called "ezoosmos" - manifests itself as something beautiful. He cannot associate it with social surroundings. But due to this person pays attention inward. And he asks a question -what is it, from where has the feeling appeared? And he begins to look for the information.
Roman: Yes, it is inexplicable.
Imam: Starting to look for it, a person begins to receive the information. He can seek knowledge everywhere, in various religious and spiritual systems, sects, and such like. And sooner or later, the one who treats the information with attention finds the right direction, that knowledge leading to the true deepest feelings and not going beyond his faith or spiritual tradition. He just deepens the understanding of what he is involved in, of what he truly believes in.
Roman: What should be the attention?
Imam: First of all, it is a wonderful feeling, it is peace, it is inner freedom, awareness of the unity with everyone, love and gratitude.
Roman: I mean the features of attention.
Imam: Including attention. It cannot be some kind of ,let us say, breaching the walls. It is soft, it is tranquil, but at the same time, it is clearly aimed at reaching the inner state.
Roman: Does permanence play a role?
Imam: Yes, of course.
Sergey: Can we compare it with the laser beam, the same thin?
Imam: There is a clear focus, because a person is no longer interested in the side effects. Although it happens very often, that striving for the spiritual a human acquires some qualities, for example extrasensory abilities. And when a person has such an aspiration, he begins to cognize.
Roman: But not everyone has such an aspiration. Usually it is so: today a person understood, felt, did a practice - hurrah! Next day he woke up, a work phone rang, he went on business, he was bogged down. It turns out to be a kind of a swing. What advice can be given beginners in such situations? How to learn to keep the attention inside?
Imam: In Fact, the process is simple. The human was plunged somewhere into emotion, but remembered his spiritual component - and got back inwards. That is, he "took out" his attention, well, if we may say so, he turned it from the external to the internal. Today, tomorrow, he constantly remembers it. And he starts to recall it more often during the day. And these intervals when he is not in the feeling of inner freedom, when he is out of feeling of love, become shorter. He is more and more often remains in this deepest state.
Roman: Maybe a person should learn to remember it, should he?
Imam: A person can do it any way. At long last, he can have these inner urges even observing every material object or phenomenon. Well, he saw a flying bird and remembered that there is a flight, there is freedom - and turned his attention inward. Can he do it through associations? In general, a person can experience feelings everywhere, no matter where he is: at work, while interacting with colleagues or relatives, in transport and so on.
Roman: It is possible, but every one of those present can probably say that the choice is made, there is an aspiration, but still there are these leaps of attention. Now it is here, then it is there, it is in the phone, in work, or it is in something else...in something completely unimportant, but - it is held there.
Imam: A question is: Can a human be happy when he is eating?
Maxim: He can.
Imam: Can he be happy when he is speaking on the phone?
Maxim: He can.
Imam: No matter where the person is and what he does. He can be happy. The most interesting thing occurs when a person is really in touch with the inner, with the Creator.
Roman: He becomes a spiritual guide, does he?
Imam: Quite right. Thus, he becomes a guide and the spiritual power acts in him.
Roman: Strangers feel it, by the way.
Imam: There is an expression: "Remove yourself from everything you do and do not prevent God from creating." Do not prevent Him from creating by your ego interference. And when this happens, the happiness of inner unity with the Creator does not disappear, but remains with the person forever. It also manifests in the external. Such person can easily communicate with almost everyone. The distinctions are erased. Exactly this sort of behavior, when human is able to ignore his ego, to find common ground with other people, shows his inner aspiration for unity, his aspiration for the spiritual. It is much more comfortable to live when people are united, when they provide each other mutual assistance. Many matters of this world are settled. They become less important and essential. And there are a lot of advantages in unity!
Roman: Yes, we have talked about the unity in the previous conversation, and in my opinion, it was very convincing.
Sergey: And what is happening to a person who has not saved his Soul? I have many acquaintances, friends who consider their present life as the only one. And every one of them says: I live, my life is regulated, I'm happy. I have everything: money, work, status, friends, girlfriends, I have a great rest- I am satisfied. What happens then to a human if the Personality does not merge with the Soul?
Imam: Well, let us first understand whether he gets what he wants or not? Why such a person is always looking for new emotions, new adventures? Why he is not content with them? You see, he is always looking for something new, do you agree? He is no longer satisfied with his previous amusements - he tries to obtain more vivid impressions. Why?
Roman: It is called insatiability.
Imam: Insatiability of consciousness and body, which cannot be satisfied by material desires, because he is looking for a state of happiness, by and large. But he cannot find it as he seeks the illusory happiness. The society shows him that he will be happy only if he gets some accessories. He is constantly told that his happiness depends on his acquisitions.
Sergey: Or when he achieves something, right? When he has a successful career, for example.
Imam: Quite right. And then he will be supposedly happy. But achieving something that in his opinion can bring him happiness, he surprisingly discovers that it is far from so.
Sergey: Does anyone feel dissatisfaction when he achieves or gets something material?
Imam: Everyone. There is a temporary state of euphoria, achievement emotions. But some time passes and the newness of the situation disappears, leaving the state of dissatisfaction and the desire to achieve former state of illusory happiness.
Sergey: So when he boasts and says, "I am happy" - is it just a mask?
Imam: It is mask and fear of evaluation.
Sergey: And what happens when a person does not merge with the Soul?
Imam: That is sad. His sensory and emotional dominant is preserved. It is everything that a human has accumulated during his lifetime: his desires and emotions of fear, greed, hatred, superiority and so on. But the Personality as a part of the spiritual world, cannot die. In this case, it connects with the consciousness - and appears an information, sensory and emotional component... - we can call it subpersonality. There is practically no life in it, as a program of life is withdrawn.
Sergey: Is the subpersonality mortal?
Imam: It is mortal only in one case: if it merges with the Soul of the following Personality. No one would envy the state of subpersonality. In this state, a human, or to be more exact, what he has become, preserves aspirations and desires, all gamut of emotions, intensified many times. But the fulfilment of these desires is no longer possible. The Soul enters a new body, in which a new Personality gains the power of attention, and therefore, life. Subpersonality, after the death of the body, receives all the information about the world in which it resides. It gets an understanding that the person could reach immortality, if he would pay attention to his spiritual development, or in more detail, if he would do spiritual practices, would more often communicate with God through the deepest feelings while praying, reading mantras and so on. Awareness of being subpersonality is in fact a real hell. Moreover, the subpersonality has practical experience of body death and fear of death. So it turns out that on the one hand a person in this state suffers from his inability to pass into Eternity, true freedom and happiness, understanding it as former personality, on the other hand he suffers from the inability to fulfill his insatiable desires as consciousness. As well as his inability to change anything, to affect the living Personality. In case of merging new personality with the Soul, the information shells (subpersonalities) are destroyed, death comes for them.
Sergey: Accordingly, can we say that the one who does not choose here the fusion of the personality with the Soul, but chooses the material achievements, career, status, and so on, cares, in fact, about his death in the future?
Julia: Of course.
Imam: He is not aware of this until his body dies.
Sergey: The Real Life is only when the Personality merges with the Soul, is not it? And all the rest, so to speak, is the future death, is it so?
Imam: It is existence. By and large, it is even not death, but something worse.
Imam: Because the death for the body can be compered with the stop for the car. But that personality who did not merge, having turned into subpersonality, stats to feel enormous pressure there, practically a state of hell.
Sergey: Is there an understanding?
Imam: Yes, there is an understanding.
Sergey: Is there an understanding of one and another side?
Roman: Most probably there is no power to change anything, is it so?
Imam: There is no power because there is no life. Life program is withdrawn.
Sergey: Is it like a houseplant?
Imam: Even worse.
Roman: Can we compare it with the state of "being behind the glass"?
Imam: Yes, we can. Figuratively speaking, it is like a very hungry person who stands in front of a show-window of a supermarket, but cannot reach the food. He preserves all desires, all sensory and emotional components, but is unable to meet them.
Sergey: There is nothing to say here, a good prospect....
Imam: At that he has an understanding of life eternal, which is here, in front of him...And again, on the one hand in this state of "being behind the glass" there is everything he wants, but on the other hand, he sees the life eternal, which he could have reached, but had not done it. It is even worse because a man sees what he could achieve, but by personal stupidity, naivety and unwillingness took another step, made another choice.
Sergey: The Soul Salvation is possible only during the lifetime being in the physical body, is it so?
Sergey: There is no other chance, is there?
Imam: The person should become "alive" here.
Sergey: Yeah, to pass this school...
Imam: Yes. In practice, it is easy. The only thing that a person has to do is to make the right choice, that is, to appeal in deepest feelings to real oneself. This is wonderful! Not only that, he acquires many friends, like-minded people -but also he acquires a feeling component and step into eternity!
Roman: There is an important moment, which, most probably, makes many be frighten off- does he lose anything in his earthly life?
Imam: By and large, he does not lose anything. Even if he takes care of his loved ones, his nearest and dearest, then with the loss of the physical body, he does not lose the love. It is a divine component.
Sergey: What causes in this case the feeling of substitution, that I begin to follow the spiritual path, become a spiritual individual ... and appears some feelings of fear, loss, as if it is needed to become a hermit, go into the cave? Why is there an impression at once that a human should leave everything?
Imam: It is due to misunderstanding. Again, it comes from the pride, ego, because a person thinks that he will be better than others if he goes into the cave, leads ascetic life or he is engaged in some "development". You see, going somewhere into the cave, he does not leave himself here. He takes all his thoughts and emotions along, too. And what is he going to do with it all? But at the same time, the human who is in the society, has a spiritual component - and nothing prevents him from its development.
Maxim: The only thing that makes impossible for a person to develop spiritually in any conditions is absence of knowledge- is that all?
Imam: We can say so.
Oleg: Well, it is not only absence of knowledge, but also absence of desire.
Imam: When a person has knowledge, then he has a choice. When there is a choice, he has an aspiration to exercise this choice. The primary is really a faith and practical experience. Because, in any case, even if we take a rough example: a person knows that he can hammer a nail into a board, but when he takes a hammer and knocks the hundredth nail, no one will be able to convince him to the contrary that he does not know it and cannot do it. When a person has faith, and it is confirmed by the experience, then it becomes a knowledge, the true faith. At this moment, he has a choice. And he strives for the realization of this choice.
Sergey: You know it is like - faith begets knowledge, the knowledge engenders an action, the action brings the experience and the experience strengthens faith.
Imam: We come to the same - a circle is closed.
Maxim: We have come to an understanding that life does not end after death.
Imam: No, it does not.
Maxim: What happens when a person is spiritually liberated? It just seems to me that if people have that kind of understanding, it will be easier for them to make a choice and take a step.
Imam: There is no death. Death comes only for the body and the consciousness.
Maxim: What happens after the death of the body with the "merged" Personality?
Imam: Some people have a fear. People often ask such questions: If I merge with the Soul, will I die at the same moment? Will I leave the body? Firstly, this is not true. Secondly, when a person accomplishes such spiritual feat and really becomes an eternal being, then he makes a personal choice whether to leave or to stay. After all, the body still has vital energy (prana), which supports the vital functions of the body. A person may decide to serve - that is to remain in the world, remain in the material world, but already as the matured spiritual being.
Roman: I am sorry, I want to clarify once again, if a person suddenly starts to experience unexpected transformation, perhaps a moment of fear can arise- will I die or I will not? What you can advise him? I remember when first time I was taken out in astral against my will, and I was extremely frightened, I clung to space with invisible claws just to stay in the physical body ... Still, what advice can you give- to dive without doubts, to open up?
Imam: Well, it is just another trick of consciousness to leave a person here and bind to the material world, just another trap. Perhaps the last one. But if a person wants to leave quietly, he should not pay attention to these whispers - just take a step and become a part of the Spiritual world.
Maxim: Will his earthly life change, if he decides to stay?
Imam: Well, nothing changes in life, only his attitude. A person becomes quieter, steady. He already knows what will happen; he already knows what in general is going on. He has the knowledge, moreover it is the true knowledge, the full knowledge of what is the Spiritual world and what is the material world - and further he lives already in the material body. He lives simply having other priorities. Take at least what tell those who experienced clinical death. Many of them became much kinder, more attentive to people, they start to treat with respect life and everything. They saw, they felt it and lightly touched it. Yes, for some reason, there are still here, but they already know that there is no death as such - and the fear of death disappears. They are already waiting for the moment when it will happen - when there will be a holiday in their lives, which, finally, will return them to that already experienced state. The same happens to the one doing spiritual practices, as he is no longer afraid of death. He has the experience of being there, beyond this life - he has nothing to be afraid.
Roman: Can we go back again, and somehow outline this process? A human has received an information - accepted it and understood where he has to go. Has he made a choice, has not he? Then comes a certain period of time, maybe a month, maybe a year or even a decade, during which he must cultivate the deepest feelings, acquire the Holy Spirit. At that he rushes inwards, am I right? With the help of his intention, attention and aspiration. Is that exactly the process of enlightenment, or the Soul salvation, depending on how is more convenient to call?
Imam: Yes, this is the process of human evolutionary development.
Roman: Here, in addition I would like to mention the subtleties, as I well believe that now (especially after appearance of the book "AllatRa") many set themselves a goal to return home. It is clear that it is a spiritual work and there are a lot of the subtleties, nuances. What is important first? Is it an aspiration, a steady purpose to "go out"?
Imam: It is indeed important to keep the strong desire to cognize, to keep serenity. The human stops listening to his consciousness. He understands from where the thoughts occur.
Roman: Is it worth being guided by the experience of others? Follow the more advanced?
Imam: Well, there is such a common mistake, which is present in all currents: that the disciple must cognize near the teacher's feet and follow his instructions. Although many Zen masters, on the contrary, urge the disciples to follow their own path - and that is right.
Roman: You should not make yourself an idol, is it about this?
Imam: Absolutely right. The attachment to some other people's experience does not give experience. Personal experience is needed. No matter how much you may be looking at the way people drive nails into a board, but you will not be able to do it until you take a hammer in your hand. It is simple. A human should acquire his own experience. Of course, he may ask for advice. He can ask some technical questions, clarify something in order to see where to correct his course, but the person should go on his own.
Roman: Can we clarify once again where a person should go- to acquire perception through feelings, develop it. In other words, should he learn to be a feeling?
Roman: To be the deepest feeling, not superficial emotions, we should distinguish it.
Imam: Let us have a look at the differences between feelings and emotions. Feelings are permanent, stable, calm. The emotion has a push. It grows up, reaches its peak and then falls down like a wave. And it may fall much deeper down than the point from which the human began. It is from euphoria to depression. As long as there is this push and as far as inertia is enough, so the emotional state lasts. Emotion is always temporary. And it always arouses a feeling of devastation and deception. The human wanted something, but did not get it. Something true that he thought to get. Or appears an emotion caused by nagging at oneself. It can lead a person to a state of deep depression. But it lasts as long as a human gives it his attention. As soon as he turns his attention to the creation and positive events, depression disappears. The feeling is exactly what appears when a human gains an experience of contact with the Spiritual world. This does not pass anymore. The human cognizes this state of perception through feelings so deeply, that he becomes the feeling he is cultivating in himself.
Roman: Does he just live with this feeling, live in it? And some remaining part of the attention pays to the external world. Is it right?
Imam: Quite right. In order to cognize something in this world or somehow interact with it, in any case a part of attention should be paid. Figuratively speaking, when we go along the street, we still notice something by our peripheral vision. And here is the same, when a person starts living by the spiritual feelings, by the Spiritual world, he all the same whether he likes it or not, pays his attention to the external somewhere on the periphery. That is quite enough for the existence of the human body and life in the material world or, as it is also called, in a three-dimensional world.
Roman: Is the following assertion right- that enlightenment is a state of "here and now" prolonged to eternity?
Imam: Yes, it is. The spiritual world is stable. It is always at the point of "here and now". This material world and the consciousness are always on the move from yesterday to tomorrow, but this point of "now" is imperceptible to consciousness and it rushes by at once. If we notice thoughts that arise in our mind then they concern either the past or the future.
Roman: The majority of people live like this, unfortunately.
Imam: But the point of "here and now" remains practically unnoticed for the consciousness. But when a person starts to live by the deepest feelings and do spiritual practices, then this state for him becomes natural. Here I am happy. Now is exactly the time when I am happy. This is the point, which allows a person to be stable in feelings and acquire an absolute happiness. The simplest, just consider yourself at this moment: are you thinking or worrying about something at this moment? And the following second can be exactly the same: “be happy, be the same."
Roman: It is true; it is not hard.
Imam: It is not hard at all. Only attention gives the opportunity to stay at the moment of "here and now".
Roman: Thus, we can gain in that way the necessary amount of Allat power for "passing”, cannot we?
Imam: Absolutely right.
Julia: Is it every second choice to be happy?
Maxim: Can we say that a human comes into this world to learn how to live by feelings?
Imam: That is so.
Oleg: Do we need to change the world outlook, to cognize the world in which we live? Do we need to study how the consciousness and body work as the components of the animal nature in the human, to understand the laws of collective consciousness existence, or as they say, the system of Animal Mind?
Imam: And in order to make a choice it is necessary through the deepest feelings (in prayer or spiritual practice) to cognize the Spiritual world, own Soul and the path to achieve spiritual transformation, move up to a higher evolutionary level. This is absolutely natural state of the human. The most natural. He moves from simple to complex or from death to life, his movement is here and should be here. Not to death, but to life, because with the disappearance of the body the true life does not end, but just begins. In this, in fact, is the meaning of human. How a human goes out of the house with its walls, the same way we enter a new life - eternal life. Here we gain a slight experience of life, which is for the body is temporary existence. And when a person gets over the verge - he evolves. Moreover, he evolves to the spiritual being for which the cognition never ends. To whatever he pays his attention there - this information unfolds for him in full. Who knows best of all how everything is organized as not Creator?! When a person passes into the spiritual world, he cognizes all at once, information instantly spreads everywhere. And it becomes clear, and the person gets full information content. He does not have fragmentary understanding. Usually a human gets fragmentary knowledge in the material world, which must be confirmed either by some logical constructs, or empirically or in some other way. In the spiritual world, all the information to which he paid attention becomes clear at once.
There is an example; I do not already remember the name of this physicist. He constantly worked and had no time to pay attention to health - and at some moment, his heart stopped. He was in the state of clinical death during 8 minutes. An ambulance arrived quickly and, after all, he was brought out from the state of clinical death. He is a scientist, he was used to explore the world, was used to pay attention to the information. And in his diary he described the experience of being in a state of clinical death. It is interesting what he noticed. He says that he realized that he was over the body, and there was no body. Then he says that he was sucked in some pipe, he flew and saw the information around. And that kind of information like, for example, he remembered that he had a broken TV. And in front of him unfolded all the information; where the ore was mined for details of this TV, who and how made it, where was the damage in the TV. That is, he immediately received all the information about this TV.
Roman: The so-called Akashic records?
Imam: Yes, the information field.
Roman: Is it unified information field of the Earth or the Animal Mind?
Imam: Not only the Earth. Everything is fractal. A person has the information field, the Earth has the information field, and the Universe has the same information, and so on. - Everything develops fractal.
Later on, this physicist worked in the design office that worked out the rocket. He paid his attention to that unit, over which engineers racked their brains - and he immediately received all the necessary information how to design it better. He just payed his attention. He had a desire to look at something and immediately got the full information content.
And concerning his way out of the state of clinical death, he later wrote that he had such a state like he was pulled out from something so beautiful like a carrot from a vegetable-bed. At the end he saw the light, felt some happiness - and then he said that he was abruptly pulled out and came to himself in the body. When he came to the TV, he changed those resistors - that unit that he saw "there", and TV begun to work.
Roman: Most probably, Tesla received the information, did not he?
Imam: Yes, that is the intuitive cognition. The physicist experienced it in the state of clinical death. When a human becomes a spiritual being, he absolutely in the same way receives the information about everything that interests him - the full information content. At that time, he was not a body. At that time, he was just a spirit, a person striving for eternity.
Roman: It is that what is called enlightenment, salvation of the soul, the spiritual liberation - it is a fusion of the personality with the soul - the 7th dimension. But thanks to the book AllatRa we know that there are 72 dimensions. So, when it happens to a person, does he continue to develop further?
Imam: Yes, cognition never ends.
Roman: If this has not happened to a human, then he becomes a subpersonality, returns to the wheel of Samsara, keeps coming back here - and at this his development ends, is it right?
Imam: The development as a spiritual being, yes. The matter here is when a person becomes a subpersonality - he, relatively speaking, is a spoon for a system of the animal nature, the Animal mind, the material world, the world of the Devil - you can call it in different ways. Because, being a shell on the Soul, the subpersonality reserves the part of Allat, which passes from the Soul to the Personality, for oneself. The system of this world takes away a part of Allat. The more those shells, the less the forces of creation, that is to say, the spiritual forces penetrate the next personality. The less chances has a Personality to merge.
Roman: Does it turn out, that the worse the subpersonalities are, the less chances to liberate has the next personality?
Oleg: The more subpersonalities.
Imam: You mean the amount.
Roman: The more bad subpersonalities...
Imam: There are no good subpersonalities.
Roman: Well, does it happen that it was not enough for a person, just a little bit?
Imam: It happens that it was not enough, yes, then this shell is a little lighter, but still it reserves for itself a part of Allat power.
Roman: As it is written in the book, these are so-called “light filters".
Roman: Does everything in the material world feed by Allat power?
Roman: In religion and mythology, there is such a concept as an angel. Is it the same as being the truly enlightened?
Imam: This is a spiritual being.
Roman: There is another interesting question concerning the initial spiritual work. Many people eradicate in themselves the patterns of the Animal Mind. This is essential, of course, but in my personal experience I have noticed , that when I make a choice in the direction of the Soul, in the direction of spirituality, when I establish a link with God - then it is much easier to cut off everything alien, unnecessary, stereotyped. Can a person just make a choice, rush inwards - and it in itself will start to fall away? Or you have to work out this pattern, to work out that pattern and also to work out another one over there, have not you? By the way, I do not understand why we should work them out, if it is possible only once to refuse them?
Imam: That is exactly what we talked about. These are two ways of transformation. One is at once through sincere pure faith, without any doubts. Yes, it is a pretty tough way, but it is fast.
Roman: But it is effective one.
Imam: Another way is gradual cognition. Here the main thing is to be honest and not to lose sight of the goal. Because, to put it mildly, having set a goal to release from the patters and having lost the goal of spiritual transformation - one will not reach anything. But here you should see the goal not paying attention on what falls away on your way. You know, one of my friends says that he understands when he makes a mistake somewhere. As he stumbled and fell. But he lifted, saw where to go, shook the dust off his trousers - and went further. That is the liberation from patterns. It is not the goal itself. It is the means to reach the goal. It is a way when you throw away something unnecessary, something, that prevents you from moving and it becomes easier to go.
Roman: But when you rush inwards with confidence, may it fall away itself!
Imam: Absolutely right, why not? But we should not forget that a person grows up in a system of patterns and programs of this world, and nothing happens just like that, "for free». We should constantly be on the alert, monitor the manifestation of system in ourselves, direct attention to the Soul, and be in constant dialogue by feelings with God.
Oleg: In addition, a kind of distinctive separation appears, that is roughly speaking: there is me and there is not me. After all, patterns belong to something rougher, something material. But here we have something more mild, open and bright.
Roman: Is it a material structure, we can say so, of the consciousness? Which is stuck to the human structure...
Imam: Well, if by feelings, then all material world is perceived as something rough, dark and sticky. It is a kind of something, that you should pay any attention at all. When in front of you is eternity, happiness, here is near - freedom, great freedom, then there is no sense to change eternity to something temporary, to something that you do not need at all. There is only one desire - an aspiration for freedom. But without attention to this world we will not be able to socialize and share experience. We should learn how to use the consciousness and body as tools.
Roman: You can try to tell a person in the street, who goes shopping on Sunday afternoon...
Imam: The matter here is not in that person. Well, you will not come up to people in the street, as they do in sects, and offer them to develop spiritually, will you. A person has the right to choose, given to him by God. Live so that the person himself would like to come up and ask, “Why do you live so? Why are you happy? How have you achieved it?” Then he will have an understanding, because his attention is directed to receive the information. But when you go and try to thrust on some knowledge, a person will reject it for one simple reason: because he will perceive it as violence against the personality. Therefore, you should become an example - everything is much simpler. You can offer to a person, who is interested, you can have a talk with him about conscience, honor, dignity, love and happiness. And gradually, when a human has set his priorities, when he has conceived an interest to cognize himself, to cognize the world as it is, only then you can talk with him about spiritual transformation - and he will hear. This occurs only when you form friendly relations with him. You should understand that when you come up to a stranger, any kind of stranger, he already treats you with circumspection. But when you started a conversation, found some common ground, developed some relationships, then he perceives the information. Wherefore should a person striving for God grow intellectually? In order to have the associations to convey the feelings, this feeling experience. It is passed on through associations, through examples. A person through applying these associations to himself, it can be through a parable or some kind of scientific achievement, let him perceive it at the level of consciousness, but at the same time, will feel it. He will experience this feeling, it may become interesting for him, and he himself will start developing in this direction.
Roman: There is a widespread belief that the realm of feelings is a kind of some human weakness, which is absolutely unacceptable in the present tense aggressive environment. Although, if we look into it, it is a delusion, is not it?
Imam: Of course, it is a delusion. When a person is in feeling of freedom, no one will come up to him in order to deprive him of this freedom. He is sure of oneself; he stands like a rock. That is all. There is no wish to come up to him and cause him some discomfort; it is useless. First, in order to rouse a human to something, you have to discompose him. But the one who is cognizing himself does not lose this state, he is steady, he realizes what is his predestination. Well, just try to do something with him! He is free, it is impossible to manipulate him. He immediately understands, on the spot, what your manipulation consists. Tt is not possible to frighten him, because the death of the body is not a problem for him at all - but, on the contrary, a liberation! There are practically no tools, as such, by which it would be possible to influence him.
Roman: It is impossible to limit him by taking something material.
Imam: What kind of material things do you want to take from him if wants to give it back himself? There are no tools. Other people experience a fear when they see a person who is so confident and so quiet. And when a person does not understand what is the gist, why the other person is so quiet, why does not he cling to the material? Then a fear appears. Therefore, this person has the power, if he is not afraid of anything.
Roman: He seems to be mentally healthy.
Imam: Yes, he is normal, but so strong. On the one hand, it is interesting for people why he is like this but, on the other hand, it is inconvenient for the consciousness because this human is strong - he is internally strong. And here a misunderstanding appears. And often people, who steep purely in matter and do not want to change anything, start to pin labels on a person who does not fit in the limits of matter. And they just say that they already know about it, that they understand, that those people are some kind of wrong, sectarians, or whichever, that they talk about something spiritual, because it is alien to these people. But when a person begins to be honest with himself and decides to investigate it and when he begins to examine it deeply, then it appears that there is nothing terrible there. As it is said, every human has this opportunity to become such strong, quiet and steady.
Roman: There is another aspect, which is constantly mentioned both in the books and in the programs, that it is simple.
Imam: And it is really simple.
Roman: (laughs) what is the simplicity of this, could you explain to the readers?
Imam: The simplicity is in the fact that a person should take only a step towards himself and that is all. To follow this path. Nothing more is needed. The person should not seat or talk about it, but should take this step. Then all misunderstandings simply disappear, because you have gained personal experience.
Roman: I have also heard such an interesting statement, that it is much more complicated to become a sub-personality than to become an angel!
Imam: And this is true.
Roman: So, do you just need to become a deepest feeling and not to prevent?
Imam: Do not prevent God from creating.
Roman: And everything will occur by itself, will not it?
Imam: Quite right. The world is so ... well, there is such an understanding that the world is programmed. That which we choose is a program of action.
Roman: Is it nothing but an automatic process?
Imam: That is quite right; it is an automatic process. Well, let us draw an analogy with a computer: you choose which folder to open. How does it work? By one click of the mouse, you open a full information content. The kind of information you receive depends on what you opened. And the next is your way to action. Here is the same: we choose a program - and act in accordance with this program. That which we get depends on the program we launched.
Roman: We choose once, but firmly the salvation of the Soul and get...
Imam: The salvation of the Soul.
Roman: Well, let us sum up a bit, as our time is up and we have to round off. Today we talked about the salvation of the Soul, the true enlightenment. After the conversation, I really have the feeling that everything is much simpler than people imagine. If it is possible, I will divide the process into stages for a better understanding of the readers. First, a person receives pure knowledge, true information. Secondly, - he makes a choice. In the third place is spiritual work, he directs his attention inwards. Fourth and, perhaps the most important, we have to emphasize what is, in general, the driving force of the whole process of enlightenment. Is it Love?
Imam: Yes. It is Love in our understanding; we color it so. Although it is a huge power of creation. The Creator by his love creates this world. This is a huge power, which practically creates all around. And when it turns through desires into anti-love, into anti-allat, then a material thing or event or phenomenon appears. But it is, first of all, the power - it is a huge power of The Creator.
Roman: Is it given to a person only during his life?
Roman: And people only have to turn this vector back, inwards?
Imam: Well, finally, let us be honest: how much can we get? We have to give something to the Creator. And what can we can give him of that which he would have wanted?
Roman: It is said in the first of God's commandments: Love your God...
Imam: Yes, only love and respect, I am sorry, but every parent wants his child to respect him and love. It is the interaction between people based on love, friendship and mutual understanding. With the Creator, it is the same. When a person begins to apply to him as to a parent-with the respect and understanding - and in the end will do that for which He sent us here. That is, to become a mature, spiritual being.
Roman: You know, considering the process of the salvation of the Soul, taking into account the acquired knowledge, including also this literally soul-salvation conversation, it becomes clear, that enlightenment - is simple.
Imam: The most interesting thing is that for every person that path is open - for anyone, no matter who is he and where is he. Regardless of his status, nationality, financial situation. Nothing is important for the spiritual world, but a spiritual aspiration of a person. That is all; nothing prevents a person. It makes no difference for the Spiritual world how we live this life, how we manage to get our daily bread, by and large. If this goes with the rules of conscience, as one of the laws of the Spiritual world. Conscience, honor, dignity, love, morality. Because exactly these criteria, these concepts do not give the animal nature to manifest itself in a human. And the more we appeal to the spiritual feelings, the closer we are to home, our true home. For every person the way is open. There is nothing so complicated or unachievable.
Roman: You simply need to desire it.
Imam: Yes. Just to make a choice.
Maxim: One just can remember how a child loves his mother and father - and that is all.
Maxim: It is elementary.
Roman: Here, on this remarkable note, let us conclude this interview; I hope not the last one. Thank you very much, the conversation was cognitive and helpful, and many issues were uncovered for us and I have no doubt that for our readers as well. There is the knowledge, it remained only to make a choice and to strive for One God and this we have already started to do, right here and now...
Oleg: Thank you!
Maxim: Thank you!
Julia: Thank you!
Many thanks to everyone who took part in the conversation, especially to Eva Kim, Julia Matveeva and Alexei, who effectively converted it from audio to text format.